Has Smoking Ban Hurt Business?
By CARRA HIGGINS, Staff WriterSmoke-filled bars and restaurants haven't been the norm in Randolph County for nearly a year. However, both sides of the smoking debate hope a decision, expected Thursday, by the Randolph County Commissioners Julia Elbon, Mike Taylor and Voras Haynes will influence the Randolph County Board of Health.
During a previous commission meeting, Carman Metheny spoke on behalf of the H.W. Daniels American Legion Post 29 board of directors asking the commissioners recommend to the Board of Health that a stipulation be made to the regulation, which would allow smoking in private clubs and fraternal organizations.
The meeting after Metheny made his request, Christina Mickey, project coordinator for Smoke-Free West Virginia, refuted comments that private clubs should be exempt from the ban. Mickey, citing West Virginia Supreme Court rulings, said private clubs are not exempt from any county health regulations, which include safe food practices and clean indoor air regulations.
Randolph County Commissioners approve appointments to the Board of Health. However, no matter what decision the commissioners make, the Board of Health does not have to follow the recommendation, according to Mickey.
"Local boards of health are politically shielded," Mickey said.
Before the smoking ban went into effect on Aug. 1, 2007, some area businesses had already made the decision to go smoke-free because of customer requests. Bob Evans Restaurant in Elkins had a smoking section since its doors opened in 1999, but around March 2007 General Manager Wanda Payne decided to make the restaurant non-smoking. Payne, a smoker, said the decision was difficult, but understood her customers' requests.
"We had to sacrifice one for the other," Payne said. "Most of our customers are non-smokers and they didn't appreciate the cigarette smoke."
Becoming a smoke-free facility has actually helped build sales and bring more customers into the family restaurant, Payne said. Customer response, even before the smoking ban went into effect, was positive, she said.
In 2006, Applebees opened as a non-smoking restaurant, which surprized some patrons, explained Manager Tori Perkins. Some made the presumption they could smoke in the bar area, but Perkins said smoking customers have not complained about not being able to light up.
"It's never been a big issue," Perkins said.
Perkins also believes clean indoor air regulations being the same as safe food practices is, and always will be, a debated issue - those who smoke see one side and those who do not will take the other.
Beander's General Manager Desire Watson said she has also been assured by her customers - even some smokers - that they appreciate the smoke-free environment. Although Beander's is a restaurant/bar, the business has not been hurt by the smoking ban because people do not go out simply to smoke, Watson explained.
"People come out because it's a social environment," she said.
Watson believes the choice to allow smoking should be up to the business owner, but she has noticed her own health changes. Long hours in the bar often left Watson with a cough in the mornings, which have stopped since the smoking ban took effect, she said.
Some businesses may have gained customers because of the ban but may see less of their familiar smoking customers, including Elkins resident Sandy Pawelczyk.
She and her husband enjoyed being able to smoke while they waited for their food without having to go outside. Those who go outdoors to smoke are often forced to litter the streets with their cigarette butts because few businesses have urns, Pawelczyk said.
Other than littering, those standing outside could present further problems, Pawelczyk said. While traveling in areas outside of West Virginia where smoking has been banned, she noticed sidewalks filled with people smoking who are also under the influence of alcohol. Pawelczyk believes there is potential for fights to break out on the streets that couldn't be controlled as quickly as they could be in the bar.
Also while traveling, Pawelczyk has experienced hotels without smoking rooms and smoke-free casinos. Although her experience happened outside West Virginia borders, she thinks if smoking bans continue tourists may take their dollars somewhere else.
Elkins City Treasurer Linda Crosston said the city has increased its revenues thanks in part to tourism funds. However, she said she can't distinguish whether the smoking ban has had an effect on the amount of money the city takes in through B&O taxes.
"It's hard to correlate the smoking ban and revenue," Crosston said.
The hotel/motel tax is the only county revenue that would be affected by the smoking ban, according to Haynes who added that funds from that tax have actually increased since Aug. 1, 2007.
Because business owners pay rent and taxes, Pawelczyk strongly believes owners should be able to decide if the establishment allows smoking. A sign posted on the outside noting smoking is permitted would be one way to ensure everyone in the community has a place to relax other than their home, Pawelczyk said.
Perhaps smokers and non-smokers could co-habitate in the same facility if the regulations were rewritten, Pawelczyk said. In Harrison County, restaurants offer a smoking section in an enclosed area and Pawelczyk said she would be pleased if Randolph County would do the same.
One of Mickey's arguments to the commission was that employees of bars and restaurants should be protected from second-hand smoke. Pawelczyk, however, believes employees who choose to work in a smoking establishment understand they will be exposed to cigarette smoke.
Even though some businesses in town have not taken a financial hit because of the ban, the American Legion has dipped into its savings and other accounts to keep its doors open and fund community projects.
On any given Friday or Saturday night at the American Legion, approximately 60 percent of patrons could be seen smoking before the ban, according to Gary Channel, chairman of the H.W. Daniels American Legion Post 29 board of directors. Those nights were booming, now the American Legion is like a ghost town, he said.
The packed house nights helped assure funding for high school senior scholarships, food baskets during Christmas and many other community projects by the nonprofit organization, explained Channel.
Pawelczyk is also disturbed that the American Legion is having financial trouble because of everything the organization does for the community, such as sponsoring baseball.
Not only does the American Legion provide for the community, but the veterans who are members of the club fought for the rights of those in the United States, including the right to smoke, Channel said.
Vents to the outside helped carry away some of the cigarette smoke and to Channel's knowledge, the American Legion did not have complaints about smoking from its non-smoking patrons.
"They can smoke anywhere they want, except in Randolph County," Channel said. "Bottom line, it's discrimination."
Violation of rights is the "oldest argument" people make about smoking bans, said Mickey, who agrees with courts across the country that clean air regulations are the same as safe food regulations.
"People don't get to decide on their food quality," she said. "It would be like posting a sign on the door saying, 'I don't adhere to safe food practices or fire marshal regulations.'"
Regarding constitutional rights, literature provided by Mickey argues smokers are not a group protected by the constitution.
"There Is No Constitutional Right to Smoke" reads: "Smoking is not an 'immutable characteristic' because people are not born smokers and smoking, while addictive, is still a behavior people can stop. Because smokers are not a specially protected group, a smoke-free law that 'discriminates' against smokers will not violate the Equal Protection Clause so long as the law is rationally related to a legitimate government goal."
While smoking isn't a constitutional right, it can be viewed as a right in a capitalist society, explained Joel Isabell, owner of The Jabberwock in Elkins.
"Smoking is bad for you," Isabell said. "But it's a taxed, legal product."
Business owners who choose to allow smoking in their building help contribute to the economy by paying taxes and their customers should decide what the market demands, Isabell said.
The current U.S. economy has not helped the overall business climate, but the Board of Health's decision has hurt more, according to Isabell.
"They got to make a decision for my business," Isabell said. "... it's not about smoking, it's about paying my mortgage."
Instead of making running a business easier, government bodies only seem to create "feel good legislation," Isabell said.
Small business are suffering because of clean indoor air regulations, but nothing is being done about large corporations, such as car producers and coal companies, Isabell said. If fines are being issued to bars and restaurants, other pollutant causing industries should also pay a price, he believes.
Isabell estimated that 95 percent of his clientele smoked inside the bar on any night of the week.
"Now they're all outside," Isabell said.
Courts have also ruled it is not a constitutional violation of rights to ask people to go outside to smoke, Mickey said.
"No one is telling people to stop smoking," Mickey said.
People have questioned why smoking is allowed in bingo halls, but state law regulates that county enacted smoking bans cannot be any more strenuous than the state law, which allows smoking in the halls, Mickey explained.
Finally, Mickey told commissioners the smoke-free initiative will prevent future generations of smokers. Pawelczyk disagrees - banishing smoking from every public place in Randolph County will not stop people from buying their favorite brand.
The Randolph County Commission meets at 1:30 p.m. Thursday in the Randolph County Courthouse annex.
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estridge
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07-24-08 2:48 PM
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Our society has all kinds of laws in place that on the surface appear to be an attempt to protect people from themselves. We have seat belt laws to keep you from flying into the windshield in a collision, we have licensing laws to keep people from entering a profession or operating equipment for which they are not qualified, and we have helmet laws to force someone to wear a piece of equipment to protect them from a brain injury, even though their brain doesn't work well enouph to make that decision on its own. However, the real reason for those laws is not so noble, they are in place to protect our society from footing the bill when a person requires medical care for an avoidable injury, or when an incompetent accountant, lawyer, airplane pilot or whatever screws something up and it has to be fixed. I guess we are now adding the geniuses that choose to set a known cancer causer on fire and then inhale the smoke to the list of those likely to run up a bill that lands on us all.
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ELKINSLOL
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07-24-08 9:05 AM
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Beth get off your high horse and come down here with us normal folk. This is not grade school; the golden rule is not practiced in "real life". If an establishment sells alcohol for consumption on the premises then why ban smoking?? Which one will kill you faster? The politically correct left wing has to have some evil to fight so I guess it is the smokers. As stated before, I do not smoke but I am tired of government regulation and them sticking their noses where they don't belong!! They try to tell us everything from what trees to have on our property (thanks to Guye), to what medical care someone gets, to how much of OUR money we get to keep!!! Ridiculous!!! GRizzly56: English and spell check are your friends, embrace them.
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LMcCauley
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07-23-08 11:53 PM
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I guess I'm missing something here. If you CHOOSE to be exposed to second hand (or first hand for that matter),how is that anyone's fault but your own? If a club, bar, restaurant, etc. wants to allow smoking, you can CHOOSE as to whether you want to go there or not.
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GRizzly56
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07-23-08 10:33 PM
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a lot of truth here but u non smokers alot of bs. evntualy you will try prohobition again or some other righs second hand smoke my eye = when are you going to pick on social drunks? oops high class drinking you non cigarette smokers probabaly smoke mary waannaot che tobaco??gone to far at davis m hospital when patient or those waiting cannot smoke in thewre own vechile in the middle of a bad stormm?hey its my vechile right?give nme aticket or fine and ill sue for tresspasing on my private property wow what a wipes ??
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beth01
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07-23-08 8:27 PM
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This is in response to LMcCauley.Yes they do help some people but why try to raise money for something you really care little about? If they truely cared about themselves and/or others they would "BAN" smoking from their establishment.I was always told "Practice what you PREACH". Dont go telling people what you can do to help them a little bit.Help them completely and "STOP" smoking where others could be affected by secondhand smoke which causes cancer****mon sense people,only those with low self-esteem do not care about others health or well being,not to mention their own!!!!!!!!!!
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LMcCauley
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07-23-08 11:51 AM
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I repeat; I do not smoke, never did. However I am an adult of 50+ years and able to make my own decisions. If an establishment has a sign on the door that states that it is a SMOKING ESTABLISHMENT, I can choose whether I want to go in or work there. It should be my choice, not anyone else's. Also, I'm asking beth01 not to belittle the efforts of these beforenamed organizations. Not all of the members smoke or drink alcohol. There are individuals whose families have been menbers for generations. All members, smoking and nonsmoking join in raising money to fund projects such as food banks, soldiers overseas, local sports teams etc. You may not agree with their ideals, but please don't belittle their efforts.
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beth01
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07-23-08 11:38 AM
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If that isnt calling the kettle black,I dont know what is? The American Legend,Elks,VFW raising money for cancer!!!WHAT A JOKE? Here we will raise money to help cancer patients or research and at the same time we will envite other people into our "Business" to smoke.So, they to can get" LUNG or THROAT CANCER" and in return we will then help them out when they need some help raising money for their treatment."Dont worry we will have your back". What a joke?
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LMcCauley
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07-23-08 11:22 AM
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P.S. I find Ms. Mickey's comments in the July 11th Intermountain offensive. This is taken from the article; (Mickey said that future generations of smokers are created in bars because those who patronize the establishments are easily influenced. Also, those who work in the hospitality industry should receive protectionfrom secondhand smoke; and the negative influence of seeing others smoke, Mickey said. "in the hospitality industry the vast majority of them are unskilled workforce," Mickey added.) This seems to be a "put down" of anyone who works in the hospitality industry. And infers that individuals are not able to make choices and therefore "someone else" must tell them what they can and can't do with their personal lives!!!
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beth01
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07-23-08 11:17 AM
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I think it has hurt some Bussiness,but the customers will come back if the establishment had good food,good services,clean and reasonable prices.I have lived in others states where they have the same smoking bans and the customers stopped coming the the business.People need to get out and socialize and they will realize that they were wrong and agree to go outside to smoke.I strongly agree with the smoking ban.My daughter has asthma along with thousands of other people and second hand smoke does cause them problems with breathing.Asthma is not only affecting children but it does affect adults too.Not to mention COPD and other breathing problems.Do any of this people have a right to go out of there homes and have a nice evening out with family or friends and not worry about choking to death from someone smoking who doesnt give a care about themselves or others.Ipersonally know family and friends that have died from Lung cancer,Throat cancer and it not a pretty picture.
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LMcCauley
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07-23-08 11:12 AM
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The American Legion, VFW, Eagles, Elks, etc. are service organizations or fraternal clubs that happen to have a bar area. The bar is NOT what the organization is all about. Refer back to the article which states some of the things the Legion does locally. These other clubs and organizations also have the same agendas. The Eagles raises money for many different "causes". The Cancer Fund, Jimmy Durante's Crippled Childrens Fund, the Veterans, Heart Fund are just a few that I'm aware of. The Elks are involved with things that support our young people. I'm sure there are individuals who could give more information on the charities and funding of these and other like organizations. Yes, the economy is a factor, but as I said above "LET ME CHOOSE"!
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cricket57
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07-23-08 10:58 AM
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I am a smoker and agree completely with Ms. Pawelczyk. There is no such thing as going out for the evening, away from home, and being able to completely relax. I, too, believe it should be up to the business owner as to what is allowed in their own individual establishment. Before the ban, there were several non-smoking establishments, and it was an individual choice if you chose to visit either. And how on earth with this prevent future generations of smokers? Our young people have nearly nothing to do in town, but ride around. Is it truly going to prevent them from smoking when everywhere they go a group of people are standing on the street smoking?? Please!! If our city government truly wants to make a difference in OUR health, get the drugs off the street and the drunks off the roads!!! That's what's killing people!!!
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ELKINSLOL
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07-23-08 10:37 AM
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I am a non-smoker; I hate the smell of cigarette smoke. However, these businesses are PRIVATELY owned and operated. If the owner chooses to allow smoking then so be it. If you don’t like it, go somewhere else. Governmental control is getting out of hand.
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LMcCauley
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07-23-08 9:54 AM
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I do not smoke, never did. However I am an adult of 50+ years and able to make my own decisions. If an establishment has a sign on the door that states that it is a SMOKING ESTABLISHMENT, I can choose whether I want to go in or work there. It should be my choice, not anyone else's.
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Bearsden
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07-23-08 8:15 AM
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I would suggest that the state of the economy is the real cause. Spending money at your local American Legion, other fraternal organizations, bars or anywhere else comes out of what is called discretionary spending for most folks. By that I mean this is the money you have left for "fun" things after all other financial obligations are satisfied. The way the economy is now for anyone trying to keep their head above water, which is more important, putting food on the table for you and your family and gas in your vehicle so you can get to work or spending money at your local bar?
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